Port Vale chiefs talk transfers, investment and stadium plans
A newsletter special looking at issues from the fans' forum at Vale Park with Carol Shanahan, Matt Hancock and David Flitcroft
Hello and welcome to a special edition of The Valiant for Friday January 26. We are looking at last night’s fans’ forum in which owner and chair Carol Shanahan, chief executive Matt Hancock and director of football David Flitcroft addressed supporters at Vale Park.
Questions weren’t vetted but taken from the audience in a packed Valiant Suite. There were a number of topics covered, from transfers, to investment, to the club’s plans for the squad and the ground.
So, today’s edition looks at talking points from the evening.
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The Shanahans’ investment
Carol and Kevin Shanahan, who took over in 2019, have invested around £10m to buy Vale and the ground and pay towards the running of the club.
Chief executive Matt Hancock put their support into some context when he said the money Vale actually bring in themselves would put them on a par with League Two clubs, but the support of the owners takes that to League One level.
He said: “At the moment, without throwing figures around, if we took out the Shanahans’ support, we are a League Two football club with the money we have coming through the turnstiles, the commercial income and everything else.
“The Shanahans, unbelievably, allow us to compete where we are at the moment. They allow us to compete as a good League One club.”
The challenge now, as Hancock added, is to grow the club off the pitch so it is more capable of holding its own in League One.
How to do that? Increasing attendances by improving facilities and the matchday experience is one aim. Also, investment in the academy is one example Carol Shanahan used in her interview with The Valiant this season.
Has the club turned down a bid from Ian Donaldson?
Autonet Insurance are major sponsors at the Vale and Ian Donaldson has an executive box in the Lorne Street. So, perhaps it’s not surprising that the hugely successful local businessman is occasionally the subject of rumours about buying or taking a major stake in the club.
Over to Carol Shanahan who was asked whether she had turned down investment from him - and said that is simply not true.
She said: “Evidently I have turned Ian Donaldson down! He doesn’t know that! I have said to him, ‘I am really sorry for turning down this money that you never offered me!’
“I haven’t turned anybody down….well, we did have one strange lot of people that did come who wanted to invest in the club.
“A lot has been said about Ian Donaldson so let’s go to that. Ian Donaldson is a good friend of mine and he is a really good friend of the club.
“He has his hospitality suite upstairs and he paid for that a few years up front which gave us the funds we needed to develop the boardroom. Then that set us off so we could then develop the Robbie room (the Robbie Williams Suite).
“He has been very good. He has given us an interest-free loan for the (giant) screen. He has lent us the money to buy the screen and been very generous so it is interest-free. Our cash-flow was such that we were going to have to wait but he said we didn’t have to wait, he would lend us the money.”
She added: “He is very good to Port Vale and to me. He will offer advice, he is there for me. But, no, we haven’t turned down shed-loads of money from anybody.”
How many more signings can we expect in the transfer window?
Vale have so far brought in three loan players – Rhys Williams, from Liverpool, Jensen Weir, from Brighton, and Dan Gore, from Manchester United. It looks like two more signings, both loans, could be on the way, one of which would be a striker.
David Flitcroft said: “We are probably looking at two more. We are really identifying them. They will probably come from the loan market.
“We have identified the permanent market and it is too expensive but there are some good players out there in the loan market that we are working on.
“A lot has happened with the striker options. A lot of the Championship clubs I have spoken to are waiting for that one to drop for them before they release.
“So, you will certainly see with strikers, game-changers, creators, people who can score and assist….it is just more of a long, drawn-out process for that.
“We are negotiating with some clubs but it is a bit of a waiting game. We are probably looking at two players and two positions.”
The transfer window, the difficulty of permanent signings and widening the search for players
This topic arose from the question: “How difficult are permanent signings in this window? For example we have seen a player go from Cheltenham to Oxford for a big chunk of money.” (That’s striker Will Goodwin who moved for a reported £400,000)
Over to David Flitcroft: “It is difficult when you are seeing Goodwin go at that price tag. You saw the boy (Luke) Armstrong went to Carlisle again for a lot of money.
“We can’t put those funds into that type of signing. I am not going to sit here and say that we can.
“What we have got to do is be good with the Premier League 2 (the Premier League under-21 league). You have to watch the players live and build those relationships with clubs.”
He also said permanent signings are easier in the summer than in January.
“The best time to recruit the likes of Ethan Chislett is at the end of the season when you have done a lot of work on them. If you get too desperate in a window….in the January window last season we got desperate and ended up getting Matty Taylor. He was injured at the time and the loan signing didn’t work even though it cost us money in wages.
“It is difficult to go permanent. Non-league has become expensive now. We have been looking at quite a few good non-league players.
“I look at Ben Garrity who has come from non-league. They have real hunger but everybody is doing it.
“So, we have had to move markets. We are looking at Ireland and Scotland. When I say we are looking, we have better people in those places now and are really exploring the market.
“There is the USA model, New Zealand, Australian players…players that are similar to League One.
“We have realised there is a pot of players where, even if we could do it financially, they might choose a Derby, Bolton Wanderers or Charlton.
“We are not where we want to be just yet but we are trying to strive to become that club.”
Flitcroft said the emergence of players from the club’s academy would save money in next year’s squad and allow them to put funds towards, for example, a striker.
“It’s a bit like we did with Connor Ripley. We looked at the goalkeeper situation that we hadn’t got right. We will probably move that forward in the summer to look at the striker market.”
Turning down an offer for Funso Ojo
Flitcroft revealed a bid came in for the experienced midfielder in the summer but Vale didn’t want to cash in.
“We turned down a big bid for Funso Ojo in the summer. He could have gone but we turned it down. We have had bids for quite a few of our players that we have turned down.
“When the time is right then we sell a player but when it is not right for the club we will turn that down. We have become a team whose players people want now.
“Three years ago, nobody wanted any players we had. So, we are building. We are probably building more slowly than most fans want but we can’t put the club in jeopardy.”
Talking to Chelsea about loan signings
In several answers, Flitcroft referenced Chelsea as an example of the type of clubs now looking at Vale as a place they could send loan players.
So, towards the end of the evening he was asked if that was just a hypothetical example or the club were talking to Chelsea about players.
He said: “Carlo Cudicini is their loans manager. In the summer, we spoke to him quite a lot. They have got a couple of players that are of interest to us.
“They have done the work on us. They have interviewed us. That is the first part of the process. It takes about three to six months to get that formalised.
“We have done that process now and we are looking at that. Whether someone comes in or not, I am not sure but we certainly have a good relationship with them.”
Could any players leave before the end of this transfer window?
Over to David Flitcroft. He said he was regularly taking calls about players and clearly didn’t want to make himself a hostage to fortune by saying no one would be leaving before next Thursday’s window.
“Every day….and I had a phone call about an hour ago about a player. A new manager has come into a club in the last 24 hours and has rung me about one of our players. We have refused.
“In the next four or five days we are probably bracing ourselves for people wanting our players. You just never know. In the last five days, there could be injuries or suspensions to players from other teams so there could be some calls.
“So, in terms of outs, there still could be.”
Selling on youth players
Flitcroft rubbished reports that top European clubs are trying to sign academy midfielder Liam Brazier and said those stories aren’t fair to the 17 year old.
He said: “He is a young kid who is trying to get a contract and has been put under severe pressure. It is not fair to him.”
He was also asked what sort of fees Vale received when they sold on youngsters such as Michael Mills to Newcastle United and Freddie Lawrie to Aston Villa.
He wouldn’t comment on those individual deals but said in general: “You are looking at the hundreds of thousands when you are selling a 14 or 15-year-old player. There are clubs out there that do want to invest that sort of money, whether that is Aston Villa, Newcastle, Tottenham….these clubs are just short at certain areas or age groups. They are the sort of figures - £250,000 plus – that you can command, without giving you the definite figure.”
The latest with Rhys Walters
Vale are keen to get the 18-year-old midfielder on a professional contract. As David Flitcroft said in his interview with us before Christmas, he and Carol Shanahan had been in detailed talks with the player, his family and agent to try to do that.
Asked about Walters last night, he sounded hopeful that a deal can be done.
He said: “We have moved forward in the last two weeks. It is something we have been working really hard on. It has gone on for too long.
“Rhys wants to sign his contract, his family want to sign the contract. The agents probably don’t.
“So, we have got closer in the last week. I think it has helped that it only took a week for Baylee Dipepa to want to sign, and Ben Lomax. We are getting closer with Jack Shorrock.
“Just watching their commitment, and how they want to represent the football club…..Rhys certainly wants a piece of that. He has said from the outset that he wants to stay at the club. It is getting closer. Early next week we are hoping something gets done on that one.”
The Vale Park campus
Vale chief executive Matt Hancock has already spoken about looking to develop the area at the back of the Bycars end that includes the training ground. One part of that would be improved training facilities which could eventually see the academy and the women’s team also use the facilities.
But a big part of the scheme is a partnership with the city council to provide facilities for community use. Hancock elaborated on that last night, saying those talks are well advanced.
“It is fair to say it is more than a conversation now. There is intent from ourselves and the council to look at a partnership around Dimensions (Leisure Centre), the astroturf and the associated area at the back. So, Sproson Park and then our training pitches.
“We are looking at a development that will bring elite football and community together. We want to create a campus where we have a community-impact facility that starts with Dimensions and then will wrap around the stadium into Lorne Street.
“We are looking at Lorne Street from an educational development point of view. So, we can create more classroom space and do some of the wonderful work the academy is doing. But link that into a lot of the community education work that the Foundation is doing. Then out on to the back of the Hamil, through on to Burslem Park and then you have the college just across the road as well.
“So, creating a ‘wellbeing campus’ that, we believe - which is part of the Shanahans’ vision from Day One - to bring life back to Burslem.
“We can have a hub of education, learning, development and at the same time create life, education and employment opportunities for people of the local area that also meets professional football.
“I have seen what football does in terms of aspiration, what it can do for someone’s confidence and self-esteem as well as community togetherness. It is bringing it all to Vale Park.
“We have the plans. It is really going to be a five-year plan to look at how we stage that and how it is financed. Of course the club is going to have to invest in that but we believe it will have a massive impact in the local community. There are a number of community and commercial partners that will want to be part of this.
“Dimensions becoming an elite football centre is not part of the plan. But Dimensions and what is out there becoming a community asset that Port Vale can really utilise and maximise is the plan.
“There are then further plans to increase the size of the training pitches out there, improve the training facilities. Not just the grass pitches but looking at the whole facilities for the first team, the academy, the scholars and women’s football.
“We also have Bradeley playing fields which are predominantly used for the Foundation activities. Part of the whole campus project is developing that site as well so that will be a real football hub.
“That is again working with the council and other partners around astroturf pitches, better facilities, better grass pitches there. Increasing the quality and quantity of football, not just for Port Vale academy boys and girls, it is going to be for the benefit of the wider community.”
Carol Shanahan, communication and social media
The subject of communication came up Carol Shanahan tackled that head on. She has given a couple of interviews to ourselves since we launched in October, also on Radio Stoke with Phil Bowers last night and attends forums such as this one.
But she said she has largely come off social media and was forthright in explaining why, talking about the ‘spiteful, nasty’ nature of some comments there.
“I have been asked why I came off social media. If you want to have a look at Twitter and how toxic it is, you will see why I came off social media. It is horrendous.”
The Railway Stand
The panel was asked about the Railway and whether the club had the funds to rebuild it.
The answer to that was no but there will be improvements such as the toilet block rebuilt and ready for next season.
Matt Hancock: “A huge part of my role over the next five years is to work with the team on ensuring we are starting to have League One-stable facilities.
“We have a fantastic stadium in terms of heritage and what it means to its community. What we haven’t got at the moment is a stadium that we can all confidently say, no matter where you are sitting, you are going to get an excellent experience when you come as an older person, younger person, family or whatever else.
“That is going to take a lot of time and investment. We have to make sure the money we have is invested in the right way but also the return on that investment is good business as well.
“I have been asked a few times because the club has invested in some of the commercial areas, such as the Lorne Street Stand (the Robbie Williams Suite would be an example). That allows us to start bringing funds into the football club quite quickly that then can be reinvested into other areas of the club.
“With the Railway, the toilets are an example. They will be sorted for the start of the new season.
“To knock that stand down, start again and build a brand new stand……I would be lying if I said that is going to happen any time soon.
“The cost of that is enormous and the reward for that from the football club point of view just doesn’t balance. There will be investment into the Railway to make it a better experience, to make sure the facilities are upgraded. But is there going to be a new Railway Stand at any point soon? No.”
The Reading game
An early question from the floor was about the Reading away game, which was abandoned because of a pitch invasion on 16 minutes by home fans in protest about their owner Dai Yongge.
The EFL have decided the game will be replayed on February 20 with the Royals only given a suspended three-points penalty.
So, the question was, ‘Would you like to talk us through the discussions you had with the EFL and Reading over the outcome of the abandoned game and, in particular, why the EFL decided the only people who would suffer as a result of that were the travelling Port Vale fans?’
The 800 Vale fans who made the trip will get a refund on their tickets and, while that would seem the minimum they should expect, Matt Hancock revealed that Vale had to apply some pressure to get that.
“The reality was at one point Reading’s terms and conditions, which they were throwing at us, were that there was going to be no reimbursement for supporters. They were quite clear on that, for a number of reasons. I have to be careful what I say.
“But we were very frustrated. The football family comes together, ie Reading supporters have very kindly donated £9,000 now towards the John Rudge statue and we are very grateful for that.
“But the way football should look after each other at times like this, and this club has been in very similar situations to the Reading supporters, so we can absolutely empathise with how they are feeling. But that doesn’t mean that Port Vale supporters should be hit hard in the pocket.”
Bill Bell’s clock
One of the interesting questions asked by the Ale and the Vale podcast on behalf of their listeners was about Bill Bell’s clock. That is part of the ground’s history, having been put in place by late chairman Bell but has been absent from Vale Park for a number of years having stopped working.
Matt Hancock tackled that one. I’m reading between the lines here but he sounded as though he was being diplomatic, trying to get the clock back in place but not jeopardising talks about that by saying too much publicly at this stage.
“It is part of the club. Unfortunately at the moment we have hit a brick wall in getting it back.”
Ticketing frustrations
Interesting question from the floor about this one.
“Trying to buy tickets online and the frustrations most of us get. It’s not going to be news for you. But an example is trying to get Fleetwood tickets the other night. It took maybe 20 or 30 minutes to register I am a season-ticket holder.
“It just seems to be when there are a lot of people going on…the website says it will be up at 6pm but you are getting your tickets at 6.30pm or 6.45pm. It’s not a moan but are you looking at plans?”
Over to Matt Hancock to answer that one.
“It’s not a moan. It is valid. Things are changing ahead of the new season.”
He said the club are reviewing their systems and added: “I know it’s not good enough, you all know it’s not good enough. We need to make it easy and a good experience for supporters when you are buying tickets to come and support the team.”
International breaks
Vale postponed their Saturday home games against Burton, Fleetwood and Leyton Orient in the first half of the season because their loan players Alfie Devine, Ollie Arblaster and Josh Thomas were away on international duty.
However, if the club met the threshold with three internationals in the future, they probably wouldn’t exercise their right to postpone the game.
One reason for this is the loss of Saturday home matches and the effect this has on supporters and the club’s finances. As we have reported here, of Vale’s 38 games so far this season, only eight have been Saturday home games. The club also feel in hindsight, they lost momentum by calling off those games.
Over to David Flitcroft: “From a football perspective, the international call ups are something we believe has hampered us. We did try to take advantage of it and get the lads to have some down- time. But it hasn’t worked for us.
“Next season, even when we get top players, we will keep that rhythm, we will use the squad. It has certainly not worked for us in terms of calling games off.”
And finally…
Thanks for subscribing and reading tonight’s special edition. We don’t usually publish on a Friday but felt this was well worth doing to cover an interesting forum at the Vale.
A ever, your comments would be much appreciated. Our next edition is on Sunday morning when we’ll be digesting Saturday’s game at home to leaders Portsmouth. See you then.
Up the Vale!
Mike
Seems like they answered the questions well .
Agree on every point really .
Bring on pompey
Hope the home ends are selling well
UTV
Forgot about that clock, would be a nice nod to our history to get it back, but it sounds like it’s in the bin!